There’s another wave of complaints about specks of dust causing MacBook butterfly-switch keyboard to stop working. Rene Ritchie walks through some high profile cases, while balancing that with his own (and others) positive experiences.
A good read, and a problem for Apple.
How so? Even if the number of keyboards that do fail are within the to-be-expected failure rates, the butterfly-switch has developed a negative reputation. I suspect that reputation has cost Apple sales as people turn to alternatives, or just don’t pull the trigger on replacing their aging MacBook Pros. But more importantly, this is tarnishing Apple’s priceless brand.
So far, all we’ve got is deafening silence on the issue.
The same could be said of the removal of headphone jacks, switch to lightning ports, USB-C, etc. Apple has approached all of these issues in a similar manner, confident in their decisions and their ability to address any issues in future products. The level of ones outrage in any particular instant seems to be more reflective of the individual than a commentary on Apple.
The Magic Keyboard, which I’m using to type this, uses a scissors mechanism. I’m wondering why they can’t use this on MacBook Pros and MacBooks? Too thick? Maybe it’s time to give up some thinness for a better keyboard.
But, this begs a question: how important are keyboards in a world that seems to be moving away from them (toward speech)? How many people reading this comment actually touch type, looking at the screen and using all of their fingers (I am)? Are we a diminishing demographic and if so, how much weight does key travel or keyboard feel have in design decisions?
I can say that one of the reasons I’ve avoided buying a new MacBook Pro is the keyboard as well as the Touch Bar (which I have no use for). I’m waiting to see how this stuff settles out in the next few versions.
Do the Macbook Airs still use scissor-switch keyboards?
I think a sizable percentage of users use external keyboards. I very rarely use my MBP’s keyboard, even though I’m on it 12 hours a day. I dock it at work and home with a mechanical USB keyboard and external monitors at each location. Journalists/pundits are probably a group that uses their laptop keyboards significantly more than the average user, so there is an amplification of any keyboard issues in the reporting.
All those issues are real. My point was that people tend to view issues they aren’t personally as affected by differently (perhaps with more objectivity).
The keyboard is awful. Every single day, one or more keys act up for me. Different keys. God help me if I fold up my laptop, put it in a bag, and take it somewhere – instantly, another half dozen keys start causing problems. I refuse to let my friends and family buy these laptops. They’re trash.
They’re not remotely the same.
All that you cite are feature tradeoffs. You can debate them, rationalize them, etc. before purchase.
The keyboard issue is _not_ about feel (which would be in the same category), but intrinsic reliability. That’s really quite different.
A sizable percentage is still going to be minority. I’m in fact in that minority (well, mostly I use a Mac Pro or an iMac with an external keyboard), but if you look around, the vast majority of people use laptops as laptops, be it in coffee shops, meetings, etc.
I would be careful asserting journalists use their keyboards more than the average user. I’ve seen plenty of people spend hours in Starbucks typing away on their keyboard. I’d say college students probably abuse their keyboards the most.
Yes. They were never updated. 🙂
From what i’ve read most Macbook users _never_ connect an external monitor.
“Use an external keyboard” is not an acceptable workaround. The built-in keyboard should work, 100% of the time.
This is a real issue, not just something from “journalists/pundits”. I have a late 2016 MPB and have experienced the stuck key problems more than once. Right now the keyboard is functional, but getting a stuck or semi-stuck key is absolutely infuriating, and makes me want to throw the computer through the window. The compressed air trick has worked for me, but c’mon… really? This is the best that the “it just works” company can do?
Apple dropped the ball on this design, plain and simple. I’ve owned at least one of nearly every significant PowerBook/MacBook design released since the original Titanium G4. And this one has been by far the most disappointing.
Agreed. Sadly, I have a very hard time recommending any current laptop model from Apple. The new ones are unreliable, expensive, and made for Jony Ive’s white world. The old ones are old tech.
All Apple needs to do is refresh the MBA. Retina display, modern CPU, GPU and 16GB/1TB options. Maybe a Thunderbolt 3 port instead of Thunderbolt 2, but even that isn’t really necessary.
I don’t think it should be surprising that when you are out and about you don’t see people using external keyboards. That’s the environment people are going to be using their laptop keyboards. Offices and homes is where people dock. That said I did see a guy bring his iMac into a Panera one time.
You don’t think a group who make a living typing use their keyboard more than average? OK…
I’m not saying it isn’t an issue. I was responding to Richard’s statement about people touch typing. I’d also point out that even high-end mechanical keyboards can get sticky keys (at least they are easier to clean).
Fair enough. Part of my post was just venting. The MacBook is the most important Apple product in my life and every time I think about this lemon it makes me angry.
The current MBP is unreliable, expensive, and has a bunch of dumb design decisions – basically the complete opposite of the MBA, which was IMO the greatest computer design of all time.
“The same could be said of the removal of headphone jacks, switch to lightning ports, USB-C, etc”
Those aren’t problems with defective hardware. There’s a difference. Just as there’s a difference between not being able to access the file system on IOS and having the latest version of IOS Pages consistently get into a tizzy and pretend that you don’t have any documents stored on the device.
Apple makes controversial decisions all the time. People grumble and eventually either move to PC/Linux or get used to the change. However, when Apple releases a product that is *defective*, that’s a whole different kettle of fish.
Controversial design decisions are not the same as design reliability. Apple products, especially their laptops, are highly regarded for their reliability and longevity. All of Apple’s laptops since Steve and Jony took over had the design philosophy of “no compromising on the keyboard.” Its the primary input mechanism and central to a laptop.
I have not experienced outright failure with mine, but I will say it feels like it might be coming. Some of the keys that are used more often are feeling chintzier. Idk how else to describe it. Like they’ll get stuck or have a harder click. Feels like some cheap plastic mechanism getting stuck.
I see it as VERY different than a headphone jack. With the headphone jack, I KNOW I’m not getting one, and it doesn’t prevent me from using the Mac.
With this keyboard issue, it’s a crapshoot. You don’t know if you’re going to have the problem, you don’t expect it, and if you do have it – you’re basically out of luck and don’t have a computer to use.
Sure, if you drop soda or sugar on them. Otherwise, I’ve never seen virtually any keyboard get stuck in my 35 years of computing.
These keys can stick brand new, out of the box. (That’s literally what happened to me. Got my 2016 MBP, a few days later, with the new computer smell, I’m compiling on Xcode and the T key sticks when the machine runs hot.)
As for the broader question of “who types?” I do agree at some point it is not going to be a required user feature for laptop-like devices. However, there are plenty of people who type a lot on their laptops today, and in that capacity the new keyboards seem problematic to me. (And don’t get me wrong, I LOVE their feel and action. If they become reliable they’d become my favorite keyboard, by far.)
But the keyboard is intrinsically reliable. It only becomes unreliable under use cases that introduce excessive amounts of debris.
Almost all keyboards suffer from this problem, the only difference being the size of debris required to cause the problem.
I had a 12″ MacBook for a couple of years but the only time the keyboard had problems was when I ate near it and some crumbs got into the keyboard. That’s not Apple’s fault, that’s mine. Most people just don’t like taking responsibility for the problems they cause.
I strongly dislike the butterfly-switch keyboard, but we had to get a new MBP last year. Our apartment is a dust fountain, so I’ve been keeping the keyboard covered as much as possible. I suppose I’m glad it’s not my primary computer.
You have a curious definition of “intrinsically reliable’.
The problem is widespread. I use mine under the same conditions that I used my MBA, and 13” unibody before that, and various Aluminum/Titanium MacBooks and PowerBooks before that. The only one that has had a problem is the 2016.
Another family member’s also exhibits the problem. Again, long-time MB/PB user who hasn’t had a problem with any other model.
If you don’t know what average means you should probably look it up; it is a useful concept.
Yes, many groups use their keyboards more than average (i.e. are heavy users). Journalists are simply among that group. I’d imagine you see a fair number of programmers and college students complaining about the keyboard as well.
I agree with all you say and that’s why I’m holding off on buying one.
I’ve had Macintosh laptops since they first started making them and my last one, a 2014 fully loaded 15″ MBP was great, but I traded it in for credit thinking I’d replace it soon. Soon hasn’t come soon enough…
Normally I’d agree with you here about disproportionate and/or misplaced outrage, but I use a MacBook 12 and its intermittent keyboard issues are very real.
Three thoughts:
Have you done the compressed air trick? That made a noticeable difference in my keyboard’s responsiveness (and unstuck my spacebar).
Do you stress your CPU? On my 2016 15″ at least, when my machine gets warm, the keys, especially around the T and R keys, start sticking with a terrible feel. This is a widespread known issue. So… I avoid stressing the CPU. 🙁
If you still get sporadic failures beyond these classes of problems, I’d recommend doing an exchange while you’re still in warranty.
Luckily, my laptop is issued through work, and I can refresh it every two years. I’m hopeful that the next generation of MacBooks fix the reliability and tolerance issues, so I can upgrade next year.
I think that very few MacBook users have a (noun) dock. Much more common are those who (verb) dock by plugging into a big display, which in turn has a bunch of stuff plugged into it.
I’m in the latter category, although I’m unusual in that I put the MacBook front-and-center and use its keyboard. The main reason I do this is because I like the trackpad below keyboard layout. Apple has never made an external keyboard like that, and everyone else’s trackpads are horrible.
Even if Apple did sell such a device I might be scared off by the price. The last magic keyboard and trackpad revision came with a healthy price increase. Then there’s the space gray tax on top of that…
Count me amongst those hanging onto a 2013 model until they sort this out.
My only point was that journalists, especially tech journalists, are more likely to be personally affected by this issue than the average (take either the median or mean over whatever metric of keyboard use you want) and thus this is getting more attention than it would otherwise. I’ve never said it isn’t an issue.
Oh yeah, no argument on the headphone jack aspect of this comment thread.
“Widespread” is a matter of debate. Only Apple knows the numbers. For all we know the people we’ve already heard from could just be yelling loudly enough into an echo chamber to seem like a widespread problem when it’s really barely a blip on the radar.
I don’t know what average means. Who uses Macs heavily?
etc. Journalists are far from the only one.
As for docks, my anecdotal experience doing years of consulting at people’s homes is they are the extreme exception. As for work… maybe a few more, but Macs traditionally have been dock-resistant, and folks who are always in meetings are always typing on their laptops. At my workplace, I’d guess less than half of people who use Mac laptops dock them (and we have a lot of Macs). I’d say more like 20%. Engineers tend to do it a lot more than non-engineers here.
That’s literally the whole point of this discussion—there is serious disagreement it is intrinsically reliable. (I went from the “it can’t be unreliable” to “whoa, it totally could be” over the course of a year with my 2016 MBP. And I baby my MBP, and don’t let much of any debris near it. Clearly YMMV.)
You disagree on the reliability, which is fine. But whether or not a product is reliable is in a fundamentally different category than, say, the exclusion of a headphone jack.
Don’t assume the failure modes are the same for the other reports here. I don’t eat near mine and ran into issues. Luckily, a puff of air fixed one of my cases; the other, which is sticking keys when the CPU runs hot, remains. There are plenty other similar reports.
Also, the vast majority of keyboards need a ton of crumbs before they show any usability issues. The simple physical reality is that the butterfly keyboards, by definition in terms of its physical design, have very low space thresholds than other keyboards.
Heh.
From a statistical perspective, “average” is a vague and heavily abused term, and I suspect it is here as well in your argument.
Are you talking about the mean or the median? As a concrete example, do you include the users that never type (and their keyboard may therefore be fine) as part of the benchmark? I’d argue, no. You take a cross-section of users that use their products heavily, and if they have problems, the product is unacceptable. Especially for a company like Apple, who cares about perfecting their products.
Vaguely, something closer to a median-of-users who are some standard deviation(s) of use above the mean.
I have to agree with Janak (below) on this.
I’ve been using Apple laptops as long as Apple has made laptops and I’ve never used an external keyboard with any of them. I’ve liked all the PowerBook and MacBook Pro keyboards and frankly, I’m okay with the short key travel on the MacBook and current Pro, but given that I type a lot, I need something that’s reliable and the number of folks who seem to be having problems gives me pause.
I have a desktop computer so I’m not in a huge rush to get a new MacBook Pro and I’m hoping Apple takes these pieces of feedback seriously.
The last thing I want to do is hang an external keyboard off a portable computer, just like I don’t want to hang an external bluetooth keyboard off of my iPad Pro, but that’s also that text editing in iOS is less than wonderful, with or without a keyboard.
That clarification is helpful. There’s no design flaw.
This surprises me. I’ve owned >two dozen Apple MacBook/Pros and the frequency of halted keys related to this design is far more than any I own or have owned in the past.
I didn’t suggest above that this’s a huge deal, just that the claims are valid. This is supported by the fact that I could buy anything I want but I like this Mac quite a bit and the occasional issue isn’t a dealbreaker.
I also predict the design will be improved upon in future iterations.
I will make use of this eventually.
I’m reasonably sure Apple has access to sales figures that none of us do.
Then why have we never heard any complaints about keyboards in the past? There is something outsized in this. If you don’t acknowledge that, your head is in the sand.
This comparison defies logic. All of the things you mentioned are visible and advertised before purchase. No one has purchased a MacBook with a line in the description saying that the keyboard is more likely to fail.
I think you are overstating how many people, even in offices, connect their MacBooks to external keyboards and monitors. I can’t tell you how many times someone came into my office and asked me what kind of Dell computer I was using because my MacBook Air was connected to a Dell monitor. Average people use their laptops as laptops. Macs aren’t predominantly office PCs.
I’m pretty sure my wife has NEVER connected an external keyboard to her MacBook. I know that my sister hasn’t. I could continue down the list, but most normal people I know absolutely use the built-in keyboard.
That last statement is simply not true under normal use. It literally takes a spec of dust to stop a key from working on the current MacBooks. It would take part of a cheeseburger to get a mechanical keyboard to stop working.
I got lucky and upgraded in 2015. I will need a new computer in the next couple of years, but I will not purchase one until this issue is addressed and I will not advise anyone I know to buy one of these.
Same here. 2013 MBP. My daughter got a new MBP last year and her left Shift key no longer works properly. The problem is common and real, and I won’t be buying one, even though I like typing in the new keyboard (when I’ve tried it).
Apple has a problem with keyboards in general. My first gen Macbook is flakey and I’m on my second iPad Smart Keyboard with the dreaded “Accessory not supported” problems. I bought a new one and the problems went away so I thought “the first one was a dud”. Now the problems have returned with a vengeance in the last two weeks.
It seems like their current keyboards last a few months then just give up the ghost. It’s sad that Microsoft makes better keyboards than Apple.
Just because you dismiss the criticism doesn’t make it not valid. I have a 2016 Touch Bar MBP. 2-3 months into owning it, the spacebar got so you had to bang on it on the right side to get it to produce a space. The Genius Bar looked at it and said this required a whole new keyboard… but you can’t replace the keyboard on these things. You have to replace the top of the computer. It took me a few weeks for the problem to become bad enough for me to seek help, and I was past the 3 month mark. If I hadn’t had the extended warranty it would have cost $475. That’s absolutely insane design where a broken key can’t be fixed more easily than that. Are you seriously defending that design? This is not a theoretical issue. These are extremely expensive 15″ laptops, and supposedly we justify the high price because of the excellent design. But that’s seriously bad design. And here I am, about a year and a half into this laptop and the tab is giving problems. Is it grit? Is it the keys? This keyboard has more damned problems with failure in the face of previously-trivial grit. I’ve never seen a more finicky keyboard. But yeah, this are empty criticisms because you like the thing.
This is the biggest misread on this topic I have yet to see. The previous models were intrinsically reliable. It doesn’t matter what the total number of failures was before for two reasons:
1) There weren’t enough for us to hear this extremely outsized level of chatter about them. Almost all of the people who have this problem have owned prior model MacBooks and they never had this type of issue. That is why people are so upset.
2) If you ever had to replace the keyboard, it was a minor repair. These current models require replacement of the entire top-case for a cost of around $700. No keyboard is worth that much!
People eat. They have to. They often eat near their keyboards. Assigning one “blame” vector to a problem like this is silly. Anybody designing a keyboard should obligate themselves to design it to tolerate foreseeable environmental challenges, such as the occasional invasive cookie crumb.
People were criticizing the keyboard from the time it launched. If you want a non-feature issue you could look to antenna-gate or bend-gate or any of the logic board issues over the years. My point was that this is unlikely to tarnish Apple’s reputation any more than those much more visible and widely reported decisions/issues.
Robert was asking how important a high quality keyboard was to users. I was simply pointing out that many people who really care about typing will never be satisfied with a laptop keyboard and use external keyboards. I wasn’t implying most people used external keyboards.
I simply said mechanical keyboard can get sticky keys too (which is a fact).
Couldn’t type on the thing. bought a refurb 2015. Last time.
The tendency of users of Apple gear to go to extreme lengths to excuse
problems with the gear or the company tends toward the astonishing.
“But the keyboard is intrinsically reliable. It only becomes unreliable
under use cases that introduce excessive amounts of debris.” forsooth.
I learned my lesson when an IBM repairman vacuumed about a pint of crumbs out of a 3270 keyboard in the fleet I was responsible for and made it
good as new – people use systems the way they use them, not as Bauhaus
designers think they ‘should’ use them.
I’d be curious to see what percentage of Apple ads in the last 10 years show at least one scene in a coffee shop. Can’t think it is less than 20%. Coffee shops where people set up their laps on the table and… drink coffee and eat pastries.
If the owners wanted a device for use with minimal typing they would have purchased an iPad Pro. Laptops continue to exist because of the need to have reliable keyboard input in a portable device.
“So far, all we’ve got is deafening silence on the issue.”
As a long time Apple pundit, surely you didn’t expect anything different?
Short key travel? I use the Magic Keyboard 2 and Magic Trackpad 2. They have such short travel that I like to keep my fingernails trimmed short. But I like the keyboard, it’s really fast.
I recall seeing an Apple patent of a 3D-Touch type of keyboard, it would be just a slab of aluminum with key shapes machined on the top. The keys would sense finger pressure and location with zero key travel. It would use the Taptic Engine for tactile feedback to make it feel like you’re typing on keys. That sounds interesting.
Apple owned up to antenna-gate and gave customers free cases if they wanted them. They also explicitly introduced a better design for the next product. Bend-gate was not as widespread, especially considering the orders of magnitude larger that the iPhone ecosystem is, and Apple honored those under warranty. People are being asked to pay $700 to replace these defective keyboards and the silence from Apple on this matter is deafening.
You are going way out of your way to excuse this problem and nothing you have said is a valid comparison.
No, you explicitly said, “I think a sizable percentage of users use external keyboards.”
Please explain to me how that statement actually meant something else. I’ve read it several times and am unable to see some other meaning.
That statement is a red herring. Many things are possible in this world. We are focused here on which is more likely. A keyboard that can stop working vs. one that is regularly failing are two completely different things.
In addition to what Frank said, I disagree with your assertion. For years, Apple aligned the ergonomics of their desktop and laptop keyboards. They very much intend their laptop keyboards to be best-of-class. Apart from the major reliability issue, I think my 2016 MBP is by *far* the best keyboard, in terms of action and stability, of the many I’ve used and owned in over 30 years. (Well, I have a soft spot for the IBM cherry switches, but I now prefer low-profile setups.)
For me, the main benefit of a standalone keyboard and monitor is better ergonomics (i.e., not bending my neck down to look at the screen, not using my laptop on my lap).
I had to replace my 12.9″ iPad Pro Smart Keyboard *twice* before I got one that works, and now I’m curious how long it’ll last. The irony is, the keyboard on that unit is great. I love its feel for such a thin keyboard.
I like writing on my iPad Pro using Ulysses. I’ve forked over for two keyboards now and in the last two weeks the second has gone from working to occasionally working to dead in the water. They seem to last ~4-5 months.
I was at a client meeting last week and I watched three people in the room all struggle with their Smart Keyboards with ‘Accessory Not Supported” errors.
Right—if it doesn’t tarnish Apple’s decision, that’s because of some combination of “people have short memories” or that Apple makes it up in other ways. Which is fine, many of us are literally here on The Loop because we like Apple products.
This is a better argument than your original, which conflated it with feature decisions. That said, I think affected users would be much happier if Apple were to provide some kind of remediation.
I love Apple products and the software that runs on them. But when I look around my office I have two dead iPad Pro keyboards and MacBook with three wonky keys and a battery that needs replacing.
I have a 2015 13″ MacBook Pro, iPhone 7 Plus, and Apple Watch 3 that do work. I used to replace my stuff every year or two but now I’m hoping that my Pro will run for another 5 years. If I had to buy a laptop now I would seriously consider a Google Pixelbook running Crouton.
In case you’re not aware, Apple instituted a longer warranty policy for these: https://www.macrumors.com/2017/05/08/apple-initiates-ipad-smart-keyboard-service-policy/
I got mine replaced in mid-January, so I’m at about 3.5 months. We’ll find out soon enough. I’d like to think the new policy means they made adjustments, but I doubt it.
To say this is deeply frustrating is an understatement. Interestingly, I don’t think it’s the keyboard mechanism itself in the iPad Pro case; it’s something about the connection mechanism and the folding rubber that embeds the cable. iFixit has a teardown of it, and they suggested it’s a potentially reliable design. https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Smart+Keyboard+Teardown/53052#s116842
Agreed. The feel of the keyboard is great. Unfortunately it just doesn’t reliably connect to an iPad. I think that’s why Apple didn’t roll out the smart connector to the education market but pushed Bluetooth keyboards.
Not sure I’d like that as I don’t care for the iPad’s screen keyboard at all (which, unfortunately I’m typing this on now)
Magic Keyboard 2 is a pretty good match for larger iPads like the 12.9in iPad Pro. There are carrying cases like the Studio Neat Canopy that are built for using them together.
https://www.studioneat.com/products/canopy
So no sooner did I read the piece on Daring Fireball did I have this issue my MacBook pro and the “N” key. Could tap it 50 times and maybe get one “N”. However. I took a can of compressed air and blew a few times around the key. Helped a little and then wiped the keyboard with a microifiber and now all good. Hopefully stays this way cause I agree, going back to the old MacBook keyboard sucks and feel odd.
I’ve never dismissed the issue. You seem to rage blind to actually read what I am writing and keep insisting on putting words in my mouth.
Significant does not mean most (not even close). If that’s not something you can understand, I don’t know what to say.
correction – apple explained anntenagate was BS but gave out freebies anyway. in the media event Jobs said that the stripe (“x marks the spot”) may indeed cause bars to drop, but noted their display algorithm wasnt quite accurate and would be changed but he made a point to show it didn’t result in immediate dropped calls:
(youtube link removed due moderation flag…annoying)
…he shows at 18:45 that carrier data proved it dropped <1 % more often than the 3GS, and had 2/3s less returns than the 3GS, and while <1% was more than they'd like it to be, it showed the death grip signal attenuation wasnt actually a problem IRL.
the real proof? apple continued selling th original 4 for years to come. the controversy rotated off the news cycle.
I’ve owned Apple laptops since the PowerBook 100, and NONE of them have given me anywhere near the problems of this one.
What a bizarre statement. Like the vast majority of users, I actually use my laptop as a laptop. If I have to attach an external keyboard, this laptop has fundamentally failed me as a portable device. You on the other hand, might have been in the market for an iMac.
I’d also like too the failure rates on the 2016 vs 2017 MacBook Pros. So far, the bulk of complaints were from those that ran out and bought the 2016 model. I haven’t seen as many from owners of the 2017 model. I’d be interested to see if they’ve improved the design.
My personal preference is: I prefer the travel of the pre-2016 keyboards, but I prefer the tactile “click” of the new keyboards. I could honestly go either way. But when switching between machines, I do find myself missing the TouchBar. Not many apps support it well, but some do.
Apple had to replace the keyboard on mine 3½ months after I bought it. It wasn’t crumbs and compressed air wouldn’t have fixed it, or else the Genius Bar people would have done that instead of replacing the entire top half of the computer. This situation is 2 disasters combined: (1) a keyboard prone to failure, (2) a keyboard that can’t be replaced. If I hadn’t had the extended warranty, I’d have had to choose paying $475 or having to carry a bluetooth keyboard everywhere I went. Shame on you for trying so hard to minimize this problem. And I can add that when I called Apple and asked them about it, they immediately told me to make a Genius Bar appointment; then at the Genius Bar, one guy was checking out the laptop and his manager strolled by. Manager: “What’s up?” GB: “Another space bar.” Manager: “Oh.” Then he nodded and moved on, like he’d heard that one several times already.
It’s a huge deal because when the keyboard fails, it’s an extremely expensive fix. They have to replace the top of your computer. In the dozen or so Apple laptops I’ve owned during my lifetime, I only had to replace one other keyboard (MBP 17″) and that was simple. I did it myself.
Only Apple knows the exact numbers, but only a rabid Apple Apologist would think there isn’t a problem here.
No I enjoy having the same computer at work, home, and on the road. Thanks though.
The people pushing bend gate as a major problem were mostly anti-apple trolls. The people complaining about keyboards are almost entirely passionate mac owners.
Once again, you are equating things that are in no way similar.
A comment very befitting of your username, john doofus.
xxxx
I think others who have been reading this post know that the opposite is true. Your statements have all been based on pure conjecture, faulty logic, and misplaced analogies. I have quoted text from your own posts when you have subsequently stated that you said the opposite of what you actually said.
I’m sorry you got off on the wrong side of this argument and have decided to stick to your guns, but calling me names won’t fix that now.
Please stop with the personal attacks. It only serves to make your arguments weaker. Let me help you. First, you did not say significant. You said sizable. I even quoted you above but you continue to revise what you are saying.
Synonyms for sizable include: fairly large, substantial, considerable, respectable, significant, largish, biggish, goodly.
Antonym for sizable: small
Even if we go with your revision:
Synonyms for significant: notable, noteworthy, worthy of attention, remarkable, important, of importance, of consequence, signal; serious, crucial, weighty, momentous, epoch-making, uncommon, unusual, rare, extraordinary, exceptional, special
So your “not even close” argument is even weaker than your original argument.
I look forward to playing the next round 🙂
I agree completely about the crazy upper-case repair requirement for failed a key/board. Obviously this repair’s not only more difficult but far more expensive than on earlier designs.
I was saying that I can live with the occasional stuck (halted) key, which this design is uniquely predisposed to.
Sorry, you are right, I said sizable in my initial post. That still doesn’t mean most. I don’t see how that is controversial. I’m sorry if I’ve somehow offended you by saying some people prefer external keyboards. It isn’t meant as a personal attack.
Where have I called anyone names? Again, you seem determined to assign arguments to me which I’ve never made. As you say, anyone can read these comments, so I’m happy to leave everyone to do just that.
Crumbs have gotten into my keyboard keys for the last 3 decades I’ve used computer keyboards without causing a failure. If the occasional crumb causes keyboard failure, the manufacturer is to blame, not the user.
Please don’t try to get semantic on me. When you say I am “rage blind” you are attacking me. When you say, “If that’s not something you can understand, I don’t know what to say” you are attacking me. Don’t get cutesy by saying those are name-calling.
Now you are purposely attempting to apply misdirection. You know very well that isn’t the part of your statement that I considered a personal attack. So please stop being condescending and stick to the facts.
“Deafening silence” is one of those phrases that should trigger your “this article is biased as hell and trying to influence my thoughts on the matter” reflex.