Michael Tsai doing his usual excellent job gathering comments and links relevant to the rumored 2019 Mac Pro. Two things stand out, though all are interesting:
This detailed story from TechCrunch Editor-in-Chief Matthew Panzarino. From the story:
I was invited back to Apple to talk to the people most responsible for shepherding the renewed pro product strategy. John Ternus, vice president of Hardware Engineering, Tom Boger, senior director of Mac Hardware Product Marketing, Jud Coplan, director of Video Apps Product Marketing and Xander Soren, director of Music Apps Product Marketing.
The interviews and demos took place over several hours, highlighting the way that Apple is approaching upgradability, development of its pro apps and, most interestingly, how it has changed its process to help it more fully grok how professionals actually use its products.
A great read.
And this comment, at the end of Tsai’s rollup, from John Gruber’s take:
Sure, I wish the new Mac Pro were coming sooner. But overall this story is fantastic news for pro users — it shows Apple not only cares about the pro market, but that they’ve changed course and decided that the best way to serve pros is to work with them hand in hand.
That sums it up for me. I’m glad Apple has seen the light, is focused on bring us a new Mac Pro. Also glad they are taking the time to get it right, bring us something that will be worthy of the Pro moniker.
I do get the frustration of people who would prefer that Apple ship an upgradeable box (basically, an officially blessed Hackintosh), so they’d have something today. But that’s not Apple’s way.
Interesting, too, that Apple has parted the curtains enough to reveal plans for a product that may not ship until next December, 2019, 20 months from now.
@Dave: is there a reason you skip over Michael’s main point, which is: “I don’t see a way to spin this as anything other than crushing news. Either pro customers are still a low priority at Apple or the company is just unable to execute”?
As someone with a 2013 Mac Pro on their desk, I’d love to be a fly on the wall and find out what has taken Apple so LONG to get to this point. And, just as importantly, why they’re still “bothering” given the iMac Pro is a great device.
Yeah, I agree, and until very recently the folks arguing for a non-modular solution were winning out.
FWIW, 4K monitors work great with the 2013 Mac Pro. I’ve got a Acer 32″ 4K and, while it’s scaled and therefore Not Quite Retina, is still pretty good (and a big improvement over 2K monitors). Given this is what work offers, I take what I can get 🙂
That said, the iMac screen is obviously better. I’ve got one at home and it’s a fantastic product, and from all I’ve heard the iMac Pro is even better, which is why I beg the question: why confuse pros and just go all-in on the iMac Pro, instead of dragging out this modular paradise and torturing your most loyal customers who are holding out? As it stands, many of them are worried Apple’s spending so much time designing something revolutionary that won’t actually be modular they way they want it to.
Now, all that said, if they launch a Mac Pro with an 8K monitor, I suspect they’ll have some happy customers.
I’ve had a number of 4K monitors and while they’re fine, they all have had issues and I’m tired of dealing with either Amazon returns on this stuff or, worse, third party tech support (Dell = the devil).
You make an excellent point about expectations on the Mac Pro. Whatever Apple comes out with it’s not going to satisfy everyone and there is always grumbling but this machine has taken so long and they’ve navel gazed or argued or both for so long that no matter what they come out with it’s going to cause heated discussion.
I don’t need that much more than a 5K iMac but I don’t like fans going on while importing large numbers of RAW files and the price of a fully loaded 5K iMac is not all that much less than a base iMac Pro and I’ve been happy with the processor in the Mac Pro so it seems like a good option to me.
Agreed. There’s no other way to see this than, at the very least, a stain on Apple’s Mac Pro and, at the very worst, a HUGE embarrassment that will have the targeted pros looking elsewhere for solutions.
Oh, yeah, I think I’d get an iMac Pro today given its superior fan architecture. I spent $3500 on my iMac 5K when it first came out… so I can’t justify doing it again, but for me the entry-level iMac Pro would be reasonable, and while expensive, not out of that ballpark.
Well, the one inarguable point here is the fact it took them *5* years after the 2013 Mac Pro came out to have a story (the iMac Pro), and yet another year for the next Mac Pro. And, worse, the 2013 Mac Pro was underpowered for several problems very soon after release.
For people who have been waiting for this Mac Pro, it’s extremely disappointing. I think Apple is trying to demonstrate it cares *now*, but there clearly has been a period where it was not their highest priority.
That said: I wasn’t asking that Shawn agree, but rather observe that was the main thesis of Michael Tsai’s article.
Yup. And Apple specifically appears no longer interested in tinkerable boxes. Arguably, said population would be better served by Windows OEMs, but many folks strongly prefer macOS to Windows.
As for eGPUs, I think that covers the computation side of the problem nicely, but what I’ve heard is that it still imposes latency if your goal is high-end gaming. That said, if that was your goal, you’d have a Windows machine already.
I think the iMac Pro is great, and if I needed to refresh my 2013 MP today, I’d get it and not look back. Although the rumor of an 8K monitor is highly appealing from a “ooh, shiny” perspective. 🙂
Indeed, sort of like Facebook at this point saying they care about user data security.
I agree, Michael’s main point is crushing and I agree with it 100%. It somehow seems like Apple has lost its way on this machine and on the Mac line as a whole.
My hunch is that there’s been a lot of internal arguing at Apple (just like outside of Apple) about how to accommodate the pro user segment.
I’m not a candidate for a (new) Mac Pro even though, like you have a 2013 Mac Pro on my desk which I actually love although I need a new monitor and the iMac Pro will take care of that and get me a very nice new computer. I’m probably going to pick one up soon.
Sure, that makes sense—for pros it’s a day job, they then go home and live their life. The risk here is not that these pros complain, but rather, they just give up on the platform and move. Plenty have already done this; as you said, they use the best options they have.
How many Pro customers who just want power aren’t OK with the iMac Pro that they can buy today?
Saying that Apple is ignoring the pro segment is a statement that itself ignores that machine as an option for many pro users. I see the modular effort as trying to do something more than just stuff a bunch of high end components in a box, add some empty slots and calling it the Mac Pro.
This is what I would like to understand as well.
Apple has made vague noises in the roundtable and this follow-up, but I don’t really understand, in detail, what the core use cases they want to solve with the Mac Pro that the iMac Pro doesn’t solve.
FWIW, a lot of developers do feel a big tower would be enough for them. If Apple is not interested in building that, what are they interested in, and why is it worth waiting until 2019?
Even “doom and gloom” Marco Arment loves his iMac Pro. He thinks it’s the best machine he’s owned.
what does a big tower really give people that an iMac or iMac Pro does not? Sure, it gives some people the fuzzy warm feeling that they can play with expansion cards but what concrete use cases aren’t covered by the iMac pro?
As for the modular Pro… it sounds like they want pro users to be able to mix and match so they get a machine that’s much more tailored to their particular needs. Whether that has substantial benefits over the big box with slots is something we’ll see.
Finally, I think it’s silly for people (not you) to cry that Apple doesn’t care about the Mac or pro users in the comment thread of a post linking to a story about how they’ve gone and created an entire group around closely understanding those exact users. Look, if they didn’t care, they’d simply do the iMac Pro and call it a day, saying effectively, “take it or leave it”. Instead they have this effort going on and are being open enough that people on the fence about whether to wait for the new Pro know it’s not happening this fiscal year.
Do I wish they had the new, modular Pro out now? Of course. I’m sure they do too. But that’s not happening.
I think a nontrivial chunk of the unhappy folks wants a CPU that’s separate from the monitor so they have independent upgrade lifecycles, preferably with the ability to upgrade memory, SSD, and GPUs (and CPUs if convenient, which it rarely is these days).
These are the folks who find this conversation the most frustrating. From their perspective, a “big box” would solve the problem, but Apple is not interested in this PC-style approach. I hope they realized this clearly now.
My bigger question is, I actively wonder if Apple should say “take it or leave it”—it seems like that was their previous path. Pushing out a future promise has its downsides. I’m really curious why they’re doing this.
It seems remarkably silly to see the only two options as either Apple doesn’t care about pros or they can’t execute. Apple having an interdisciplinary team dedicated to really understanding pro needs on its own refutes the first argument (and their successful launch of the iMac Pro and recent well received updates to their pro software provide additional evidence disproving the assertion). Likewise, the idea that Apple can’t execute on hardware is laughable given their track record.
Sure, I get that they want that.. but that’s different from saying ‘I can’t do tasks that I need to do because I don’t have the power’.
As for upgrading… if Apple just keeps the iMac Pro updated then I wonder if it’s as cost effective to simply upgrade every 3 years or so, selling the old one. In my experience with other Macs, I get about 50% of the new price for a 3yo machine so a base iMac Pro would cost $2500 out of pocket in that case. $2500 every 3 years vs upgrading as you go.
Also, keep in mind that the iMac Pro can take advantage of eGPUs along with TB3 storage. So, for upgrading GPU and storage… does it really matter if that’s inside a box in a traditional slot vs outside on a TB3 connection?
I guess my point is that some people don’t really have a need to have a big box for the power, they just want it so they can play around and tinker – but that’s not an actual need driven by their pro work – it’s a desire borne out of liking to tinker. That’s fine… but let’s separate the two things.
It’s too late now but watch for deals. Best Buy did a 1 day sale on the base iMac pro last week for $1000 off (so, $4k). Still not CHEAP but…
As for the tinkerable issue… I just don’t see Apple ever doing that again. It goes against their ability to tightly integrate and tune things if you can plop any card in a slot.
The professional market is never going to be Apple’s highest priority. It is a market Apple has shown interest in, but it is a niche market. The possible exception is the Macbook Pro market (which has been going strong the whole time).
That said, I have always found it odd that the people who really seem to be upset about the Mac Pro aren’t the ones who would be using it for their professional work. It tends to be hobbyist and pundits. Professionals tend to get to work with the best options they have.
It’s not just about the Mac Pro.
The iMac cannot be upgraded.
The Mac Mini cannot be upgraded.
MacBooks cannot be upgraded.
Well, they can. But not easily. And therein lies the problem.
Don’t we remember the G3 that could fold open? Don’t we remember the Mac Mini when parts were easily accessed? I get that notebooks are harder to upgrade but swapping a hard drive shouldn’t involve a specialised screwdriver, a trip to iFixit and hoping like hell you’ve got it right.
So whilst the majority of users will not tinker or upgrade their devices, to take that option away from those who do is what angers them.
And telling them to buy as much RAM and HDD space when ordering is an insult. As is asking them to wait another year.
If people are taking this stuff so personally, that’s a bigger problem for them than whatever Apple chooses to release. Apple is not out to get them. Apple is not insulting them.
Update: I bought an iMac pro ( base model) and it is fantastic. I clean installed and airdropped my setup onto it easily and it’s purring along. I couldn’t be happier. I’ve got a buyer for my Mac Pro as well so once I’m sure the transition is solid it’ll be gone.