Rene Ritchie:
Touch ID isn’t a feature. It’s a solution to a problem that can potentially be solved in a variety of other ways. Including Face ID.
I have no doubt that Apple’s been working on an advanced Face ID system for many years. Clearly a 3D recognition system would be much better than what’s on the market now, but it would need to be as convenient and secure as Touch ID in order to work for the masses. If there’s ever a time that I need to type in my passcode because Face ID failed to recognize me in a low light or dark setting, it failed.
I’m not opposed to Face ID at all. I’m opposed to taking a step back. I hope that doesn’t happen.
If Touch ID is replaced I struggle to see how face recognition will be a better solution in a number of conditions – low light, Apple Pay to terminal, unlock when flat on desk etc. Really hope it’s not going away.
My concern with Face ID is that my face is much more prominent than my fingerprints, making it easier to fake. It’s not like you can find my fingerprints on the internet, but pictures of my face are there.
I don’t think Touch ID is going anywhere, but if this Face ID rumor is true I’m looking forward to the new cameras that are finally awesome under low-light conditions.
TouchID approval is also deliberate and intentional. It’s hard to see how FaceID could be.
Fold your arms and shake your head up and down? I like it!
looking forward to the new cameras that are finally awesome under low-light conditions” good point.
Yeah. Would get a bit old the 25th time I tried to unlock the phone…
…actually, I guess you wouldn’t need it for unlocking. Just purchases.
…or Apple Pay.
“Mommy, what’s the man doing?”
“He’s trying to pay for his groceries, dear.”
Me: “Sorry this is taking so many tries…”
Considering that Apple trademarked the phrase “Iris Engine” I think its safe to say that this isn’t JUST facial recognition. Facial recognition COMBINED with a reinvented Iris scanner (much like Touch ID reinvented fingerprint scanners) sounds like something that has the potential to surpass Touch ID in every scenario. Stronger security (by having more unique data points to capture, iris as well as face), more intuitive (raise to wake could become as simple as raise to unlock), faster, and usable in more scenarios. Touch ID isn’t some fool proof method that works in every scenario. Most of you opposed to this seem to be forgetting what happens when you have wet or even damp fingers, or wearing gloves. Guess what, you need to enter your passcode because Touch ID doesn’t work.
Lets wait and see what this “Iris Engine” is all about first before jumping to any conclusions. But if history is any indication, I have a feeling that Apple has been working on a solution that instantly makes its predecessors look cumbersome and obsolete in comparison.
You might be right. But if they replace Touch ID I better not have to hold the phone to my face first to make a purchase using Apple Pay. As it now if I am not wearing my Watch I can pull the phone out of my pocket with my thumb on the fingerprint scanner as I set it near the terminal. Plus what happens if I am wearing my sunglasses or haven’t carved my beard in a week or 2. I would rather them leave Touch ID and add facial if they want. Just some things to think about.
All of this potentially to get risk of a tiny bit of bezel.
… and ^^ THAT ^^ is the only thing that concerns me about this rumor. That it could be a solution to a design problem, not a technical problem, and that it could detract from usability.
That said, it IS just a rumor, and I DO trust the Apple team(s) to give significant weight to usability (removal of the headphone jack aside).
I really dislike the rumors of Touch ID going away. I just do not see facial recognition being a better option. Who on earth wants to put their phone up to their face when purchasing something at a store?
Touch ID also has set certain expectations – of ease of use, capabilities and use cases. A ‘Face ID’ system has to do as well in the same set of use cases and be as easy to use.
Touch ID doesn’t care if it can see my face – I can hold the phone out and have it tilted slightly away from me if the Apple Pay terminal needs that and it’s fine. That wouldn’t work for Face ID. Touch ID is fast – Face ID would need to be in the same range (not 2-3 seconds even). And Face ID can’t freak out if I’ve not shaved for a few days, let hair grow long and then cut it, changed glasses, and in partial shade, etc etc.
could also be that it senses 3d like an microsoft kinect (lots of infrared dots) or with a laser scanner – both are not going to help with low light photography (well, maybe the laser scanner could help focusing)
That is a lot of assuming. Like I said, lets see what this technology is actually capable of before assuming failure scenarios. I get it, Touch ID is an awesome and beloved feature. But Apple knows this as well as all of us. They are iPhone users too ;).
Also, I don’t see the difference in wearing sunglasses vs wearing gloves. You’re forced to remove something in either scenario to authenticate. And even then, maybe Iris Engine CAN peer through sunglasses. No one knows yet.
Which is what I’m going to hate. I test phones for a semi-living, and the ones without bezels are a nightmare for me. My big square thumbs are constantly setting things off, or I can’t swipe because some finger is touching a bit of edge somewhere. And then you’re holding the phone so daintily, it slips right out of your hand all the time.
Just give me a freaking bezel so I can grip my phone and not smash several hundred dollars on the pavement.
face-recognition won’t be as secure as fingerprint recognition, if it works when somebody just holds your phone in front of your face. as an added layer of security in combination with touch-id it’s fine, although a bit redundant (why not use a long passcode if you’re that paranoid?).
i’m ready to be surprised, but as i imagine it now it’s either less secure or less convenient as touch-id – clearly not a feature that sells luxury iphones.
I unlock my phone in my pocket at least once per day to unlock my Apple Watch.
Yeah. I think what Rene’s post misses is that if we view Touch ID as a solution to a problem, then any alternate solution needs to be as good or better in some way. The existing solution has set expectations… backsliding will be seen as failure.
Oh no, no no… not that easy.
You have to be wearing the genie outfit. Just make sure your belly button is not exposed.
Yeah. I wonder at this rumour. If face ID is a real thing there are probably reasons to identify faces quickly at the lock screen other than touch ID, even if I can’t think of them right now. (Customized notifications/dashboard? Probably not.)
I do hope for this. Apple tends to get the details right, and the palm rejection with a Pencil and iPad Pro is superb. Hopefully their Square Thumb Rejection for the edges of any bezel-less iPhone will be as good 🙂
And ARKit could help with that. It is already doing it with images scanned into Notes.
ARKit has already solved the phone at an angle issue.
I’m getting a little tired of the ‘can I use it with one hand’ criterion frankly. That’s certainly one thing to consider but it’s ONLY one thing. That said, I do get the advantage. But would I rather have Touch ID or a slightly smaller phone? Touch ID. (Note that they could still reduced the Plus size noticeably by eliminating the top bezel).
Apple has had facial recognition for a while through Photos for Mac. This means that they have a lot of data which is necessary to build out algorithms.
The question is what do they do with it? Photos and social networking? You bet. Security? The whole interaction mechanism feels far too clumsy for Apple.
No matter which way it works it will never match the convinience and speed of Touch ID.
You can today, pull your phone out of your pocket with your finger on the sensor and have it completely unlocked before it comes into your line of sight.
You can go to a contactless payment unit and hold iPhone any which way and it works. The camera facing the ground, the camera facing left, the camera facing right.
I hope they surprise me, but this sounds like a step backwards to me.
Not really because Touch ID can work without any camera seeing you. You can bring the phone to a contact less payment terminal and have it so no cameras on the device and it works.
No matter how good it is you still need to take a half a second to ensure the phone can pick up your face. Can’t compare that to putting your finger on the sensor which any of us can do with our eyes closed.
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exactly — iOS 11 document scanning works at difficult angles, so I have no reason to believe FaceID wouldnt as well.
Obviously if they go this route theyll have solved these problems. Just like they did w/ TouchID (remember how badly biometric finger scanners sucked!)
I don’t get this. You raise your phone to unlock, it scans your face, opens to home screen.
You way your phone near the NFC terminal to pay w/ Apple Pay, it scans your face and asks you to tap the virtual home button to proceed.
…what is so difficult here? Why would you need “nod gestures” or whatever youre talking about? You wouldnt, and you wont.
Yes, because Apple is clueless about user experiences and would make you “hold the phone to your face”. Seriously. As if.
You can scan documents at an angel, no reason to believe you wouldnt be able to scan the face at a normal counter angle where POS terminals reside.
There still is a headphone jack, it just uses a newer port than the legacy analog port. Non issues, considering most people use the headlphones in the box, and that it comes with an adapter for those who dont, and that wireless AirPods kicks ass.
Nobody holds their phone in any other direction than facing up when paying at a NFC POST. The screen is where the card-selection is, and where it gives you visual feedback on the process. It entails no more time or effort to do the same motion this time with the front facing camera doing the biometric authentication instead of the fingerprint scanner.
As for unlocking it quickly, your point about unlocking it in pocket is moot because you still have to LOOK at the screen before you can USE it, so if a FaceID system can unlock it by the time you have it in front of your eyes then it’s a difference that makes no difference.
Why do you say FaceID wouldnt work at an angle? Why couldnt it? Document Scanning in iOS 11 does, and the Bloomberg rumor for this feature says it does.
I swear some of you have no imagination whatsoever. Same people who freaked over TouchID because the old fingerprint scanners sucked.
Youre making things up — you have no idea how long or how effective a FaceID implementation would be.
If it scans at an angle like ARKit’s document scanning in iOS 11 does, then you wouldnt need to do anything different than place your phone at the POS terminal at the store, which is already angled to face the customer since it hosts the keypad.
Your problem is making bunk assumptions. I very much doubt anything Apple releases is going to be less convenient than what they have today.
Angle AWAY from me. Pretend you’re tapping a Square terminal with the puck on the counter so the face of the iPhone is either pointing straight up or tipped slightly away. Do it standing. Now the camera may not even have you in the frame and if it does, it’s very distorted.
There are other situations where the camera isn’t pointing at me at all (phone on a surface next to me, etc). Also…. see point elsewhere about Touch ID already setting expectations for ease of use etc.
Also, take your ‘no imagination’ BS, fold it up and…. you know what to do with it. I’m fine with discussing but personal attacks get you on the ignore list. Especially when you didn’t understand the point being made.
And here you reveal your ignorance. The Square POS stuff, for example, doesn’t use a keypad since if someone needs that they use the iPad interface. The Apple Pay ‘terminal’ is the NFC puck into which they usually insert a card and since it doesn’t have a keypad, it’s not mounted like that at all.
The general way to phrase this is “what if the camera is not facing the user or is facing them at an extreme angle’ – unlocking is not JUST used for Apple Pay after all.
Nobody? Arrogant much? You know what millions of people all do, all the time?
You’ve never had a prompt for payment on the iPhone while using it (like, say, an IAP) and declined it?
You are talking about something else entirely. I was simply responding to the phone at an angle issue and then you replied to something else completely.
You leave your fingerprints all over your device… so in the common thief case where the phone is stolen- the attacker may actually an easier go of it through fingerprints.
I don’t use a screen protector and the oleophobic coating makes it hard for fingerprints to linger. But it looks like Face ID can’t be fooled by a photo anyhow so I’m not as concerned after seeing the keynote.
From what I saw, not even that would work. They may be using some watch tech to detect blood flow/pulse. After seeing the keynote, I’m not concerned anymore.