Nearly a quarter of American adults sold or traded in a vehicle in the last 12 months, according to a Reuters/Ipsos opinion poll published on Thursday, with most getting another car. But 9 percent of that group turned to ride services like Lyft Inc and Uber Technologies Inc [UBER.UL] as their main way to get around.
About the same percentages said they planned to dispose of cars and turn to ride services in the upcoming 12 months.
This makes a lot of sense in urban areas and for people that don’t like to drive. I enjoy driving, so I wouldn’t do that, but it seems to be a growing trend.
This is a question that won’t be answered one way or the other for at least half a decade, but:
Do you guys think that Uber and Lyft will allow drivers who own an Level 4 or 5 autonomous vehicle to offer their vehicles as part of the company’s larger fleet? At the very least, it’d give them a way of completing with Tesla’s autonomous fleet plans.
I’m skeptical of the poll accuracy – “The Reuters/Ipsos U.S. poll was conducted online in English April 5-11. It gathered responses from 584 people who said they disposed of their personal vehicle within the last 12 months and 566 people who said they planned to get rid of their personal vehicles in the next 12 months.”
Which doesn’t sound random.
Aside from that this will only work, as you note, for people who are in urban settings and will be most attractive to people spending a lot on car expenses. Note the example they lead off with – a guy layout out $820 per month in car expenses. What this doesn’t account for are all of the people who buy used cars. Me, I drive a 2001 Saab 9-3 still. It’s paid for, so my expenses are gas, maintenance and insurance. Oddly, I could save perhaps $200-250/month but since I live 10 miles from the city and a mile from the nearest grocery store, I’d not only have to Lyft places, I’d have to have groceries etc delivered. Would I do this to save $500/month? Yeah. But for me and others like me with paid-for cars it’s likely a wash to use car services.
Is this really a trend, or just a trendy thing to be written about?
In reading the article the survey seems to have a thin sample size, and I’m already skeptical of the accuracy of polling and survey results.
Also unaddressed, how many of that 9% were more about using ride services to dispose of an extra car in the household vs. the only car in the household.
Are Uber & Lyft really that much more cheap and/or convenient, that car owners who didn’t ditch their cars for taxis or mass transit would now do so?
Pardon my skepticism, but being so far away from urban environs, where Uber and Lyft are unavailable, I have no way of knowing first hand.
Given how often we use our decade-plus-old car (not often) and the cost of insurance for it, I could see this sort of thing paying off.
The groceries/shopping issue is a central issue. Grocery delivery is hit-or-miss where produce and perishables are concerned. Would I need to call a “minivan” Lyft if I was making a sizable supermarket run?
Oh, yes. My wife and I are working very hard to move to a city with real public transportation. The first thing we will get rid of is the car. Public transportation and taxis and Uber/Lyft will be perfectly fine. Grab a rental car for a long trip, and we’re all good.
Exactly. I pay a $250/month car payment and $105/month for insurance. A 30-day pass for Chicago transit costs $100. That’s quite a lot of money I can put toward other things.
I’ve never liked cars. I’m so happy to be living in a time where the need for them, especially in urban and suburban areas, is becoming much less. And as I age, the idea of autonomous cars is making me feel like I might be able to get around a bit more than my mother did.
Yeah, that last issue is on my horizon, too.
Folks from lower-population-density areas have already informed me in no uncertain terms that their worship of the car will not be swayed. And I don’t blame them for that. If your local infrastructure gives you no other choice (including an odd bus line or five), you build your life around what remains.
But I’ve always lived within spitting distance of NYC, even in my current suburb. That’s where both mass transit and alternatives matter a lot to me.
the problem is that the math doesn’t usually pencil out to much savings, if any. Last I checked Uber here (Seattle) was ~$2/mile non-surge. Let’s say it’s half that in the near term. If you use it for more than 150-200 miles you’re close to what you spend now without the convenience. Now tack on deliver fees for food if that’s an option.
At some point the math WILL work though. And you’re right about being older and this tech making us more able to get out than previous generations.
The challenge for me is the occasional medium distance trip (10+miles rt). I just got a Lyft estimate from a friend’s house in Seattle proper to my house. $24. Each way. I do that trip (or a very similar one to downtown Seattle) once a month. So there’s $50 right off. If they ever finish the light rail, this will make a LOT more sense.
I loves me some light rail.
We got lucky when we found a neighborhood where I could walk to get most of everything we need, outside of department-store-level stuff. I express gratitude to my wife for finding this place, every chance I get.
We’ve been scouting alternatives for at least four years. It gets tough when you figure in the difference in state taxes.
Smart man. Sadly the light rail won’t be fully done until… 2027. 2021 for a link a few miles away. Even that will be workable for many of the downtown trips though.
<
blockquote>Google is paying 97$ per hour! Work for few hours and have longer with friends & family! !mj289d:
On tuesday I got a great new Land Rover Range Rover from having earned $8752 this last four weeks.. Its the most-financialy rewarding I’ve had.. It sounds unbelievable but you wont forgive yourself if you don’t check it
!mj289d:
➽➽
➽➽;➽➽ http://GoogleFinancialJobsCash289HomeTechGetPay$97Hour… ★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★✫★★:::::!mj289d..,…….
Tesla has a section of their contract that says customers are NOT allowed to offer their cars for ridesharing services.
You didn’t figure in the price of a parking space in the city. A parking space can often cost $1000 and more a year if not included with your rental or condo or home, especially in a city. Street parking permits figure into the cost also. I hadn’t even figured gas and maintenance into my $355 savings, so there is that as well.
It may not be for everyone, but city life and no car make sense for us. Especially since we also don’t want to own a home and have to take care of a yard and all that entails, too. 🙂
We are also considering other countries. Bogota or Medellin, Colombia is on the list in order to be closer to her family in Venezuela without being in the heart of the distress there.
Another country might make sense for you, too, Mo.
I’m talking about their upcoming Tesla Network, their bespoke ridesharing platform:
https://electrek.co/2016/10/19/teslas-new-self-driving-car-can-only-make-you-money-on-the-ride-sharing-tesla-network-not-uber-or-lyft/
And walk away from everything I’ve paid into Medicare and Social Security?
Sure. But I have a house in the seattle suburbs, parking is free.
This is kind of what I was trying to get at – it makes sense if you out of pocket is high already. In the post linked, the first guy they talk about is spending $820/month. Getting that to even $300 is a huge savings. But for other people like me, it’s less clear. My out of pocket is about $100 for insurance, another $100 for gas. That’s it. Oh fine, toss in $50/month for maintenance. The car is paid for, the parking is free. If cut that in half it’s $125 or so and it’s VERY unlikely I could actually make things work with only $125 for Lyft. That’s 60-80 miles per month.
I considered getting rid of my car and using public transportation. I worked out a route from the nearest bus stop (a 15 minute walk) to the bus stop nearest my employer (another 10 minute walk).
It would take me about 2.5 hours to use public transport. It takes me 40 minutes by car.
Tell me more about how suburbanites don’t need cars? I live in the suburbs (near Princeton, NJ) and it would be a expensive ($24) to use Lyft/Uber on a daily basis for commuting to the office. Plus more if I decide to go into Philly for the evening.
I would tell you this, but I have not really been talking about suburbia.
There is, of course, various levels of suburbia. I lived in the “suburbs” in the Washington DC area and the public transportation infrastructure was good enough for me to go anywhere I wanted via bus and metro train. Suburbs here in the Oklahoma City area have no such thing, and it is impossible to get anywhere without a vehicle. They don’t even have sidewalks in many places, which frustrates my wife to no end and thinks it is ridiculous that people get in their SUVs to go one mile to the WalMart to buy a few groceries.
Also, are you telling me there is no parking fee for you to park somewhere in downtown Philly? When I was in Miami and Dallas, I had parking garage charges. Figuring in gas and mileage and adding on a couple dollars for the wear and tear on my health from dealing with all the bullshit drivers — I think that probably easily came to $25 or so.
There are always cases where people will need vehicles. I just happen to think there are a lot more cases where they are completely unnecessary, and people just don’t realize it yet and/or make excuses.
You are still entitled to Social Security.
https://www.elderlawanswers.com/getting-social-security-while-living-overseas-8301
Medicare is different, yes, but the cost of medical care in a majority of other countries is so low, it probably won’t be an issue.
When I was in Bogota, I fell ill with bronchitis. Been getting it off and on since I was a kid, so I know the costs involved. I saw a doctor and got the medicine I needed and was well within 3 days for about $17. Here, without insurance (I had none at the time) would have cost me upwards of $120 for the doctor and $50 for the medicine.
When I was in the Netherlands, I got pink eye. Went to a doctor in the airport terminal. He apologized profusely that he would have to charge me since I was not a citizen, and showed me a bill that came to $25 US for the visit and medicine. I laughed and told him what he just did would cost me $150 or more back in the US, and happily handed over my Euros.
People here go on “vacations” to Costa Rica and other places to get dental or medical work done. It is seriously cheaper to fly to another country, get the work done, and stay a couple weeks in a hotel while the doctor verifies all is well for you to travel home than it is to have the same thing done here in the US. People with good insurance or Medicare/Medicaid often don’t look at the full costs involved. (The Medicare statements I looked over from my mother’s cancer care are unreal.) It’s frightening.
So, don’t count out moving out of the US for your retirement living. 🙂
I also think this changes a LOT if Lyft etc can ever get the per mile charge to 50 cents or so per mile vs ~$2. That would change Khürt’s commute price to $6 and in general starts to make the marginal cases like mine, where I save relatively little, more compelling.
Nope. Not saying that. I’m saying the cost savings is at the cost of FREE time. We’re talking about a 1 hour commute in a car versus several hours on public transportation. What are those extra hours worth?
I’ve lived in New York City and Atlanta. Using public transportation was easy. But it did take 90 minutes by bus and train to get from home in Flushing to the Wall Street by bus and train. I’ve lived in several towns in the Princeton area and using public transport is cost in terms of time and effort.
My son starts college at Rutgers University in New Brunswick (NJ). He has a meeting with his advisors today. It’ll take me just over 30 minutes to drive him the 15 miles to the campus (https://goo.gl/maps/GsLFgSA6MRq) or we can spend nearly 3 hours getting there by train: https://goo.gl/maps/3sCMUvDauQ72.
I don’t know the cost of using public transit to Philly from Princeton Junction (the nearest train station to my home) but if it’s anything like New York, a monthly roundtrip pass will cost $458.00. Factor in another $22/day for the round trip Uber ride.
http://www.njtransit.com/pdf/budget_Rail-NewYork.pdf
http://www.city-data.com/forum/new-jersey/297800-princeton-philadelphia-commute.html
Commuting from Princeton to Manhattan for work is easier and less costly than driving in, but once you are back home in Princeton, you are back to needing a car. Unless, you like walking 5 miles to the grocery store with bag of groceries in the snow or paying $10 for an Uber ride. We don’t have a good network of buses.
https://www.quora.com/Is-commuting-from-Princeton-NJ-to-New-York-every-day-worth-it
Working and living in New Jersey requires a car. Nearly 100 of residents have a drivers license.
The unfortunate truth about investment in transit is that not all places are going to have equal access to options. New Jersey is one of those place. It turns out that the best places in New Jersey for public transport option are also the worst places to live in New Jersey.
I’ve lived in New York (Queens) and Atlanta. Using public transportation was easy. But it did take 90 minutes to get from home to the Wall Street by bus and train. I’ve lived in walkable towns like Ann Arbor and (nearby) Princeton. But … it does require a car to get any shopping done.
My son starts college at Rutgers University in New Brunswick (NJ). He has a meeting with his advisors today. It’ll take me just over 30 minutes to drive him there (https://goo.gl/maps/GsLFgSA6MRq) or we can spend nearly 3 hours getting there by train: https://goo.gl/maps/3sCMUvDauQ72
The challenge for me is that those medium distance trips are not occasional. They’re everyday occurrences. There is not public transport from home to the nearest grocery store. None to the nearest restaurant. My wife’s entire family lives in our town and yet, we’d still need a $10 Uber ride to visit. A 14 mile one-way Uber ride to Trenton (where I work) is $22. The financial (and time cost) math of car ownership works in my favor.
What I think this will do, though, is take root in two cases. First, the one I’ve outlined before, here where someone is in an urban area with good transit, walkability etc and where they can save a lot of money by moving to delivery services + ridesharing. Second is being able to get rid of the second car in the family that really isn’t used much but is there in case the primary one is in use, etc.
Interesting. I had a long commute (over an hour with two transfers) when I lived in Washington, DC, and I used that time really well. Each to his or her own, I guess.
Agree. But New Jersey isn’t mostly city. It’s mostly suburbia and parks and wetlands and farm land (Garden State). It may be too late for us to get new public transportation infrastructure built even as old infrastructure crumbles.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-05-31/thousands-face-nyc-commutes-up-to-90-minutes-longer-amid-repairs
And we’re at capacity for our roads.
I think the problem for most New Jersey residents is the high paying jobs aren’t where we want them to be. They’re in Philadelphia and Manhattan.
Andrew Cuomo’s next stop: Transforming public transportation
Thanks for the insights, Khürt!
And New Jersey also has a high-rate of second car ownership even if only one parent is working. Getting the kids to/from events while one parent is at work + day time errands we’ve always had two cars. My wife does work and the one week that my car was being repaired (re-called for steering column issues) she basically took time off because there was no way to get me to work at the right time without her being late for work.
Food delivery services do not operate in our town. Or Princeton.
I live next to a town like that, Princeton, New Jersey. Walkable. One grocery store. Uber/Lyft access. Train to a train to Manhattan (Phily is a challenge). But … The cost of housing (he median home value in Princeton is $805,500 and rents are > $3000/month) means we can’t afford it.
https://www.zillow.com/princeton-nj/home-values/
Sounds all too familiar.