Microsoft says MacBook Pro disappointment leads to best holiday ever

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More people are switching from Macs to Surface than ever before. Our trade-in program for MacBooks was our best ever, and the combination of excitement for the innovation of Surface coupled with the disappointment of the new MacBook Pro – especially among professionals – is leading more and more people to make the switch to Surface, like this. It seems like a new review recommending Surface over MacBook comes out daily. This makes our team so proud, because it means we’re doing good work.

Microsoft has come out with things like this in the past for products competing with Apple, including a mock funeral for the iPod years ago—the number of times they’ve done that makes it hard for me to believe them. However, if this is true, Apple has a problem.



57 thoughts on “Microsoft says MacBook Pro disappointment leads to best holiday ever”

  1. I admit that Surface Studio is innovative.

    But is Surface Book more innovative than MacBook Pro?

    Surface Books cost about the same as similarly equipped MacBook Pro and RAM caps out at 16GB also.

    Granted, Surface Book has touchscreen with pen and can transform into a tablet. But aside from that, I fail to see any innovation or how it is more “pro” friendly than MacBook Pros.

  2. I was doing a product demo at a Best Buy on Saturday for an new product they are carrying. The demo was setup near the Geek Squad/Customer Service Desk. I saw three Surfaces get returned in a two hour period. All the customers looked kinda pissed about something. Who knows what… 😉

  3. I think there is definitely some truth to this. I will say however, the reasons for leaving are going to be short lived, the surface has all legacy ports at this point, so as new USB-C accessories come out they won’t be able to utilize them and you still have to do with Windows which for some is fine but others will hate it. Surface line still has some of the same things people were very vocal about with the MBP. It doesn’t have Kaby Lake, GPU options are still limited to non-existant depending on model and price for equal specced systems is pretty in line. I don’t really see how the surface pro/book is a better solution outside of if you need/really want a touch screen.

  4. “Microsoft still isn’t providing sales numbers….” so how do they prove “More people are switching from Macs to Surface than ever before.”?

  5. Well I didn’t switch to a Surface but it did make me reconsider my computing needs and realised I can do most of what I need on an iPad, so the big money that was reserved for a MBP went on a desktop PC instead. And before anyone at Microsoft calls that a win, Windows still sucks!

  6. Much the same thought here, Shawn. I’d pretty much suggest that Apple has already cleared more current “failed” MacBook Pros than the Microsoft Surface has shifted…

  7. I see no reason why new MacBooks switching to USB-C would cause users to abandon old MacBooks and macOS for Surface.

    On the other hand, I could see why users might buy a new MacBook and trade in their old one rather than selling it.

  8. They don’t have to prove it. No more than Apple having to prove what Tim Cook said about Apple Watch selling better than the previous holiday season, or what Schiller said about the highest number of Macbook Pros ordered in the weekend after a launch.

    If we are calling anyone’s bluff, let’s be fair. 🙂

  9. Well, numbers tell a different story. https://9to5mac.com/2016/11/09/2016-macbook-pro-sales/

    That said, Apple has flubbed in many ways this year, especially with the Macbook Pro — between high pricing, configurations, cheaping out on dongles and cords, and not delivering announced products, the company has stumbled badly. I’m sure there’s some small percentage of former Mac users switching to the Surface.

  10. Difference here it that MS says “more people than ever are switching..” and that is a totally different metric. If it is true they will release numbers, as that is a competitive advantage to do so. I fail to see any negative for MS to do this, other than the numbers are really small.

  11. Microsoft as a hardware maker is not in the same class as Apple, and I doubt they’ll ever get there. Apple gets a disproportionate amount of negative press with internet journalism today where clicks and fake news generate ad revenue. I’m not the least bit persuaded that Microsoft is building Apple-caliber hardware.

  14. This is true. Why? Because while everyone wants to be a cynic, companies like Microsoft do not blatantly lie when there’s no reason to. But, more switchers than ever could still be a small number. And, even tho you don’t see a down side to revealing numbers, very few companies release real numbers until it’s time to report financials. And even then, they might release some numbers and not all.

  15. It’s simple. Go to Apple.com. Try to order a MBP and see what the delivery lead time is. You are not getting one until January or February. And go to Microsoft.com and you’ll see that one will be delivered to you within half a week. Very simple research that I expect an Apple blogger to do before expressing concern that Apple might have a problem.

  18. (One difference is I think we can be reasonably sure Apple’s claims were true.)

    Edit: Actually, that’s wrong. I suspect both claims are true. Microsoft is guessing “why,” though. And Microsoft’s claim is zebras when horses will do.

    Claims to the contrary (of Apple) use quarter-over-quarter numbers prior to the release of Series 2, which is insane. Of course purchases went down! Even if the market wasn’t anticipating Series 2, the people who wanted Series 0 by and large had it.

    It’s like reporting sales of the iPhone 6s went down a couple weeks before the iPhone 7 came out. No shit!

    One day the Apple Watch may be a no-compromises device for everyone where generational improvements aren’t very big. That’s not today.

    Edit: And none of this means I wouldn’t like to see numbers. 🙂

  19. I kind of hope the Surface does well. Apple needs a kick in the pants. 426 days on iMac, 644 on the MBA, 788 on the Mini, 1089 on the Pro. I think the real disappointment is that Apple only updated one product line.

  22. I’m not doubting that Pro’s switch platforms. I’m doubting that a MacBook Pro “Pro” user would switch to a Surface. To some high-end Windows laptop yes, but that’s not what you get when you buy a Surface..

  24. Microsoft is bullshitting for the sake of PR. However, for them to be in a position to do this tells me that Apple just doesn’t get it. They used to control the mindshare of everyone in the market. Now, they play cash grab and tell us what we need in a work device anded not the other way around

  25. Thank you. You don’t
    go into the December quarter with no inventory. That is not owning the supply chain.

    Oh, my airpots have never sounded better. So transparent. It’s as if they weren’t there.

  26. I’m a pro. Very little of what i use is not cross-platform. Mr Cook et al should realize that. Oh, I can buy a phone other than an iPhone and my world will not end.

  27. The article you linked to seems to paint a different story.

    I will admit that Apple has had trouble satisfying the MOST VOCAL and outspoken customers this year, but when have they ever? Hardly ever with a gen1 redesign. You could replace all the hubbub surrounding the 2016 MBP with the 2012 rMBP and it would seem very familiar. Or the 2008 Macbook Air. The list goes on and on. This time though, we get adapters to help ease the transition. But thats being turned into a joke, rather than a mostly harmless inconvenience. Should Apple include the USB-C to USB-A dongle? Yes, but they didn’t, its not the end of the world. Back when the iMac launched with USB only, I don’t recall adapters to help ease the transition.

  28. Apple MacBook Pro sales already set to surpass 2015 MacBook​​​https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-macbook-pro-sales-already-set-to-surpass-2015-macbook/

    But what about this?

  32. There is a problem with Apple and it has largely to do with their focus on the general public at the expense of professionals. They don’t make their bread and butter from pros, and I’d wager this is why they don’t care to refresh higher end devices sooner than later.

    Mac professionals (artists and designers, at the very least) have been begging for something like the Surface Studio for quite some time, and to be honest I’m kind of surprised MS beat them to the punch with the Surface Studio.

    Wacom had rested on their laurels in the interactive displays industry for the longest time… it was just a matter of time before someone stepped up. The Apple Pencil is a fantastic tool, and Apple has managed to kick Wacom’s collective arses (in both performance and price) with the iPad Pro.

    With that said, despite Microsoft’s stunning moment of “innovation”, they managed to cock-up the Surface Studio. People are reporting erratic behaviour with the sensors causing erroneous input (as noted in Tested’s review video https://youtu.be/9NhyDiiaXic?t=6m46s)

    What Apple needs to understand is that their mantra that “Customers don’t know what they want until we show them” falls flat on its face when it comes to professionals.

    Of course, Apple’s response to the Surface Studio is both predictable and tone deaf. http://bgr.com/2016/11/14/surface-studio-apple-touchscreen-imac/

  33. Although I just love the new MacBook Pros, I’ve heard from a number of people who are frustrated there isn’t a desktop Mac Pro powerful enough for their work, forcing them to switch.

  34. Microsoft’s ads featuring “Pro” Surface users are hopelessly lame. The Broadway set designer and Hollywood VFX supervisor? The “work” they’re doing looks like it could be done with MacPaint. Scrawling antennae on abstract rooftops, circling part of a JPEG and adding an “OK” annotation?

    I guess the definition of “pro” has slipped over the years.

  35. What an odd comparison.
    Its like pointing out that the Honda Accord outsells (or rather, outsold) the S2000.

  36. Apple’s treatment of the Mac Pro sucks.
    The puck is going towards a high-end workstation. Always.

  38. Agree.

    However, if the number went up by one customer over the previous month/whatever MSFT can make that claim.

    MSFT’s whole new vibe reeks of insincerity to me.

  41. Precisely. No one is passing on a MBP because it’s not Pro enough and then buying Surface which is less powerful in some dimensions and no more powerful in others.

  42. So wait… having so much demand that you have multi-week waits is indicative of BAD sales? I agree it’s not what you want… but unless there’s some evidence that they cannot produce MBPs at the rate they always have, this is a problem of demand outstripping ability to produce. Not a problem that indicates LOW sales.

  43. MacBooks are supposed to be a more consumer focused laptop.
    And MBP are for pro users.

    So we are comparing a Civic (MacBook) with S2000 (MBP).
    S2000 never outsold the civic.

  45. That review pretty much lines up with Tested’s review — especially the sensitivity problem creating erroneous input (or “hooks” as they call it).

  46. The best ever holiday quarter for switchers from mac to Microsoft Surface seems very damning with faint praise to me.

  47. The MacBook Air is the Civic.

    The new MacBook is priced way too high to be a consumer-focused laptop. Eventually they will probably cut the price enough that it is the mainstream consumer model, but obviously that wasn’t true for the 2015 model. The relatively low performance and high price guaranteed that it would be a niche device.

    Another reason the comparison was pointless is that there is 1 model of MB, and there are 3 distinct models of MBP.

    For another car comparison, its like saying the BMW 3-series and 5-series combined outsold one particular Z convertible model. Well, duh.

  49. Those commercials are a bit baffling. It’s as though a roomful of Sales reps are trying to pitch to both pros and consumers at the same time.

  50. Yet Apple’s “Pro” laptops have been stuck at 16GB for half a decade… The ports are (generally) the issue. The main issue – IMHO – is lack of user upgrade options (RAM & SSD).

  52. Apple does nothing to kill degrading myths about the Mac.
    The late MacBook Pro brouhaha reinforced some of those myths.

    Perception is very important, and most tech columnists continue advising buying Windows machines over the Mac.

  53. It is not Surface book that is attractive, it is the other Surfaces that steal customers from MacBook Pro. Surface Pro and Surface Studio are the interesting and unique products. Apple is serving notebook and mobile tablet customers just fine.

    Never mind what Microsoft said, here are indisputable facts:

    • most people in graphics and publishing are on the Mac and have always been on the Mac

    • digital pen is a graphics and publishing tool, and the longtime pen apps are Mac apps like Photoshop, Illustrator, After Effects, Lightroom, and all of their competitors — millions of Mac users with pens for over 20 years, every day, all day

    • hottest trend in graphics tablets in the nineties was the USB plug, in the 2000’s it was a built-in screen, and in the 2010’s it is a built-in PC, so instead of buying a tablet plus a PC, you just buy a PC tablet, and instead of working at a desk, you work anywhere (external graphics tablet plus notebook PC does not fit in the lap)

    • Apple does not even make a PC tablet

    If you put the above facts together and just let them roll around in your head a little bit, you should actually expect that most of the people who are interested in the Surface Pro and Surface Studio are Mac users, because those devices are targeted at graphics and publishing, which is mostly Mac users. And since Apple literally does not have a product in this category it shouldn’t be surprising if we are actually buying Surface devices.

    I’m looking at replacing my $5000 MacBook Pro graphics setup with another $5000 MacBook Pro graphics setup, and cannot make the case that it will make me more productive. However, I can buy a Surface Pro for $1200 and add it to my current MacBook Pro, iPads, and iPhone and I am going to be immediately more productive. I can run Photoshop on a plane for the first time.

    My iPads and 20 years of pen computing have taught me I don’t need or want a notebook. I do still need the full pro Photoshop and Illustrator though. I am not at all unique in that.

    Really, if Mac users were not buying Surface Pro and Surface Studio, it would be that which should surprise you. Apple literally just does not have that product category. Graphics pros have been waiting for the pen and pen sensors to be inside the PC for literally 20 years. Surface Pro is a product I can remember wishing for with other artists in the 90’s.

    If you watch the Apple Pencil iPad Pro intro video again, notice the Pixar artists who are delighted by the Pencil and iPad all have desks with Wacom Tablets hooked up to Macs. They still have those desks a year later. The iPad Pro did not replace their Mac setups with custom scripts and apps, full professional tool chain, and unlimited freedom to hack a workaround in order to create some new innovative thing. In fact the irony is: the iPad Pro makes you want the Mac tablet more — not less.

    Adobe Creative Suite runs on Mac API and Windows API. Macs come in your choice of 1990’s form factor (MacBooks, iMacs) or 2000’s form factor (Mac mini, Mac Pro.) Windows API has those plus 2010 form factors. As long as that goes on, Apple will lose Mac sales to Microsoft.

    You have to understand — I have never used Windows and not only do I use the creative/graphics part of the Mac but I also use the UNIX part. The second last thing I want in the world is a Windows computer. But the last thing I want in the world is another computer without a pen in it. I would not take a MacBook Pro for free. So it is not a question of how good a notebook Apple made or whether the software is more secure or whatever. It is just a question of my job expects me to run Adobe Creative Suite and not be stuck to a desk. Apple Store has zero solutions for that. ZERO solutions for that. They are not competing at all. How can it be surprising that Microsoft is winning in that case? It is not Zune versus iPod — it is Zune versus iTunes on a MacBook. Don’t tell me the MacBook has a better OS than the Zune — that does not matter, because they are different form factors. For music on the bus I am going to pick Zune if the only Apple alternative is a MacBook.

    And keep in mind that Apple’s highest-precision pointing device is Apple Pencil. The one and only remaining reason to use a mouse is you want to keep your hands on the typewriter keyboard all day (novelist, heavy email user) and touching the interface is a way secondary consideration. The 2 new MacBooks are clearly nostalgic options for these users. But that is only a subset of Mac users, and most of those users were already on MacBook Air. That is why is recent MacBook Pro update met with such disappointment. A lot of people who are traditionally MacBook Pro customers have moved on from the mouse. We don’t want twice as much mouse plus a whole new kind of mouse in the function keys. That is for the novelist/email user who is really committed to typewriting in their laps. So the latest MacBook is “MacBook Air lite” and the latest MacBook Pro is “MacBook Air plus” and we are left wondering what replaces MacBook Pro for users who touch their apps all day for the last up-to-30 years? Right now it is Surface Pro. That is our only choice.

    In almost all of my apps, if I type a V, that doesn’t make a V appear in a window of text, it makes the pointer tool active under my pen. The reason the keyboard does that even though there is a pointer tool button onscreen is so that I can select the tool with my left hand and make a primitive multitouch out of one hand on keyboard and one hand on pen. That is how the majority of MacBook Pro users work. The keyboard is almost exclusively used to work around the lack of touchscreen. You almost certainly have an external device plugged in to get touch, whether it is a graphics tablet or DJ surface or video editing controller or audio mixer controller. The new MacBook Pro with even more keyboard and even more mouse is exactly the opposite of what I need. One of my hands has a pen in it all day. I cannot work with Touch Bar, and the trackpad on my MacBook Pro is just a scroller. Making it bigger is a gigantic disaster for me because it will end in the way too much and I’ll just disable it.

    I think the fate of the MacBook Pro -using community was always to split into typists and non-typists. What is weird is that Apple did 2 notebooks for the typists and nothing (yet) for the non-typists. So if Apple does a MacPad Pro, the Mac lineup would begin to make sense to someone like me again. Or if they do an iPad Pro with 16 cores that runs Mac apps. If Apple doesn’t do one or the other, then yes, they are going to end up selling a lot of Surface Pros.

  54. You are missing the point.

    Slowest part of the computer is the user. The mouse is the main thing that slows them down. Switch a user to pen instead of mouse, the double in speed after a few days of adjustment and get more work done.

    Least-informed part of the computer is also the user. Give them multitouch instead of mouse and the computer becomes 2x easier. They explore more readily and get more work done.

    Touch Bar? Who knows what impact on productivity? Mac Pro like a trash can? Who knows what impact on productivity? An even thinner 1992-style pro notebook with no usable ports and an array of dongles? Who knows what impact on productivity?

    In 2016, you cannot apply the term “innovative” to a mouse computer without a touchscreen. iPad is almost 7, iPhone is almost 10, and I have been using a pen to run my Mac since the 1990’s. I can buy a notebook with a touchscreen for $125 at my local Target. There are about 3 billion computer users in the world, and fewer than 25% of them know how to use a mouse. Soon there will be 4 and then 5 billion users and the number of mouse systems will drop.

    For many user in graphics, the pen used to require an external tablet so you bought a Wacom Tablet and then chose a Mac or Windows PC. Mostly Mac. Today, the pen is internal. You buy the pen and it comes with a Windows 10 PC in it ready to install Creative Suite over the Internet. There is no second step where you choose a Mac. There is no point at which I admire the features of the Mac. There is no pen that comes with a built-in Mac. Therefore, the Mac is irrelevant to me as anything other than a coding typewriter. I can attach a $19 keyboard to any Surface Pro, iPad Pro, or iPhone to get a coding typewriter.

    So there is no Apple/Microsoft shootout with the spec sheets. There is no Surface Pro or Surface Studio equivalent in Apple’s lineup. So Apple loses by default, not because CPU is too low or something. We compare Surface Pro and Surface Studio to not having Surface Pro or Surface Studio. We determine the Surface devices can increase productivity and easily give good ROI. Same for iPads and iPhones. As for the Mac, that is where all the best apps are, but they are not made available in a 2010’s form factor yet.

  55. Apple products are not in a different ‘class’ to the competition, the only areas where Apple lead are in marketing and profit margin, they exist to milk fools and they excel at it.

  56. “Microsoft is bullshitting for the sake of PR”

    About time, it’s worked for Apple for years.

  57. Windows is far from perfect, but it’s the only OS that’ll run all the software I need to do my job, so I don’t drip about it, it’s just there.

    But it is nice to finally have a device that will do everything I need, desktop (when docked with a large monitor, keyboard and mouse), laptop (when connected to the keyboard) and tablet.

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