Mac user Shaun McGill bought a Windows 8 laptop for his son. I laughed.
20 thoughts on ““For fuck sakes””
Something to consider: the most popular version version of Windows right now is Windows 7 (with the Aero interface).
Thanks to the weird Metro changes in Windows 8, the stripping of the Aero interface, Windows 8 no longer feels like Windows as much.
While in OSX we have a coincidental (or?) presence of more and more Aero-like elements to OSX Yosemite (transparency, OSX pre-existing soft shadows, etc.), and a more familiar desktop experience.
OSX Yosemite feels more familiar to Windows 7 users than Windows 8 does. Stuff may change very rapidly in the next few years in terms of desktop OS market share…
Windows 8 on a regular desktop is like having a touch interface that you can’t touch. This to me is a glaring misstep. What were they thinking?
I’m using OS X 10.9.3, 10.8.5, Windows 7, and Windows 8.1.
Funny enough, Windows 8 is quite usable, but for the schizophrenic situation when it comes to settings.
That and the non-existent discoverability of certain features if you’re not using a tablet.
If it weren’t for these two major downsides, I would call Windows 8.1 the best Windows I’ve used so far. It’s fast, visually pleasing and I actually like the tile interface for launching apps, but then again, I also like Launchpad on the Mac.
The reason 8.1 is starting to reverse course, and Windows 9 will reverse course even more, is that Microsoft has been getting negative feedback from people regarding the usability of Windows 8.
If you’re using “OS X 10.9.3, 10.8.5, Windows 7, and Windows 8.1” you’re already demonstrating you’re not exactly the typical Windows user, now are you?
While I may find my way around Windows 8, it doesn’t mean I like it. The decisions made are repulsive. Maybe I’m overly sensitive to design or something.
And this folks is a prime example of the source of Apple’s “it just works”
I find it literally hilarious how many issues were encountered in that post and even more hilarious how much bloatware is installed by default. Reading that makes me feel so much happy I own a MacBook. I feel sorry for his son though. Should have got a Mac and installed Windows through Bootcamp…
Funny. I buy mac hardware for work, and use bootcamp for windows. Machines are FAR higher of a quality than HP/Dell bullshit at the same price. Not sure why this guy wouldn’t have just used bootcamp, he would accomplish the same thing.
Tradition.
That poor man. So flustered, he couldn’t even spell “for fuck’s sake” correctly. 😉
My wife and I are due to visit my father-in-law fairly soon. He’s a longtime Windows XP user, and I know he’s not equipped to learn anything substantially different from that.
I’m hoping his recently-replaced computer is running Windows 7. I’ve already warned him that I’m not available for tech support, regardless of whether he’s using Windows 8 or a new Mac.
He’s right to be frustrated with bloat pre-loaded on the computer (Norton? Really?) but “I’m a mac user and don’t understand windows” is not a valid complaint. You can’t figure out to launch apps? Well learn it then. (It’s the windows key + start typing, just like spotlight on mac, just 1 key less)
As a guy with a foot in each camp, I find these kinds of post quite petty. Yeah, I might prefer OSX, but Windows 8.1 is a fine operating system that works great and does what it needs (mostly launch apps)
I think the visual aspects are a matter of personal preference. I like the way the OS looks, at least the modern parts of it.
I might not be the typical user, but I used to be and under the hood Windows 8 is a a huge step forward. The usability and discoverability of the tentpole features leaves much to be desired, though.
I really hope MS is going to improve this and fast.
I’ve seen first-hand that the transition from Windows XP or Windows 7 to OS X is easier to manage for regular users than the transition to Windows 8. That alone should tell Microsoft how badly they’ve messed up the OS for notebook and desktop users.
You don’t realize what a pain in the ass it is to fix a Windows machine until you no longer have to do it.
It’s still going on…
Some people thought I was just having a rant on Tuesday, but I really wasn’t. It worries me that normal people have to put up with this kind of nonsense. Any OS that requires countless updates out of the box must have something wrong with it.
Anyway, I got all of the updates installed and decided that Windows 8.1 may be better as Hamish says. The current situation is shown in the image above which means that the official way to install is not working despite countless attempts. So I tried the HP method and that asks for a product key which is apparently now hidden in the BIOS. I downloaded an app to find that key and it is not accepted, I just get a message asking if I want to pay £99.99 for an official version. Presumably the version of Windows 8 on my new laptop is official… Am I being punished for something I have done in a previous life?
No, you’re merely using a product that wasn’t designed for consumers to use without IT support, and whose fans defend with “RTFM.” We can do better than that now.
I hope your kid’s school administrator got a substantial kickback for specifying this crap.
I am in the UK and that is what he has to use for computing studies. They did not specify the actual machine, but did the fact it must be Windows 8.
Hard to believe I was only satisfied by the Mac when I moved 4 years ago and wrote this at the time-
“I thought I would write about my recent move from a PC, that was slowly dying, to a new Mac Mini and document the experience. Of course it is never easy to move from one computer to another, let alone a new platform, and this move has been a little bit tricky as would be expected. I have a decent screen and keyboard and mouse (the last two are already Apple products) and so decided to go for the Mac Mini to save some money. It is remarkable what deals can be struck on Apple products in major retailers if you are prepared to buy the extended warranty which you can cancel within 21 days. Let’s just say I paid approximately £400 for a brand new Mac Mini which seemed like a good deal to me.
I had already backed up my vital information from the PC to an external hard drive so all I needed to do was plug in my screen and the other bits to get started. However, the cable supplied with the Mac Mini was not the right one so a further trip to buy one was needed. Not a problem- how much can a simple cable be? For a moment I forgot that I was buying an ‘Apple’ cable and so £21 (!) later I was ready to go. It all started well and the slow process of moving my data over started.
Despite trying Macs in the past, things have changed which makes the move easier now. I use WordPress to manage 247 and so the Mac is fine for this task. Exchange support has (finally) been included by default and so emails are not an issue either and overall the move should be painless. The real surprise was moving my iPhone from the PC to the Mac which required hours of scouring forums to find a solution that worked. I fully understand the need for security, but Apple needs to look at this because the whole process is a kludge that most people would struggle to get to grips with. Smartphones hold lots of vital data for their users and so moving one from one computer to another should be a one click process that does not cause palpitations every step of the way. Eventually I got it working, thanks to you guys, and I was ready to start experiencing the Mac OS in earnest.
I have used Macs on many occasions and have never been overly enamoured by the OS or the way it works; I don’t like the dock, the keyboard shortcuts or the overall environment, but recognise that time will bring the familiarity needed to fully appreciate what so many others rave about. The fact is that I have moved to a Mac because of Microsoft and not because of Apple; I am sick and tired of continual reboots after the daily updates are installed, the daily Internet Explorer crashes, the slowdowns for no apparent reason and mostly having to change my PC every couple of years because it has become unusable. I know many people who have used the same Mac for 4 or 5 years and I want that. I don’t want to worry about reliability and I just want to get things done.
I didn’t buy the Mac Mini out of desire because if that were the case I would have purchased an iMac. I bought it to get on with things and I am convinced that I will stay with Mac OS this time. It is disappointing that the cheapest Mac OS hardware you can buy now is £650 because this stops many people from even considering the platform, but it is ultimately value for money because it is much more likely to last the distance thanks to the quality of materials and relatively slow progress of the OS. I don’t get excited about desktop computers or laptops because smartphones and mobile devices are my game, but I am now content and hopeful that all of the fiddly and messing about with desktops is over. On the whole I am ‘reasonably satisfied’ with the Mac Mini and that is good enough for me. It’s good enough because I expect to have forgotten what continual updates, freezing and general unreliability is like in a couple of months and that is what counts.”
“You can’t figure out to launch apps? Well learn it then. (It’s the
windows key + start typing, just like spotlight on mac, just 1 key less)”
I fear this is the same attitude that MS took when it released Windows 8. The problem is that solutions like this are not easy for average user, especially if above average users have problems. I consider myself a power user when it comes to Windows. I’m not an
expert, but I’m far from an average user and I make a living (partially
at least) as a .NET developer. I had trouble using Windows 8 at first.
There are a lot of things that are just not discoverable and others that were easy to do or find before are hidden behind a poorly designed touch interface. You should not have to use the keyboard to launch an app on a GUI OS. Settings, and other important functions, should not be hidden or half implemented and in multiple locations. There should not be duplicate apps for a touch UI vs a mouse driven UI on the same system. The list could go on…
The complaints Shaun has are all valid; including not knowing how to launch apps. This is a consumer OS (I’m including enterprise users here too) and as such should be easy to out of the box for the average user. My experience, as well as Shaun’s and countless others’, is that this is not the case. Windows 8 is a mess in terms of usability. I’ll reserve judgement on Windows 8.1 until I can actually use it, but I’m not in any hurry at this point.
“RTFM.”
No, it’s only petty to professionals and enthusiast nerds, who are a relatively tiny portion of the population. Your use-case is not universal.
You don’t peddle an operating system to consumers worldwide and then throw “RTFM” at them when it proves more complicated than they were expecting. That’s how we got the malware industry; millions of Windows computers were sold to people who didn’t understand how to protect themselves from online intrusion. Because they didn’t have an IT specialist who could anticipate security issues.
Mac user wants windows pc. Does not buy the mac equivalent which would be a surface which has updates installed and no bloatware. Mac user buys cheap windows laptop from shitty hp who cant make good laptops if their existence required it with no SSD and crappy amd cpu for £300. Expects it to perform the same as £800 mac laptop. Proceeds to declare all windows pcs as slow and full of bloatware. Never occuring to the mac user why apple doesnt release a mac with no SSD and amd CPU for $300 (hint it would suck).I continuing to believe that these people are idiots who can’t make valid comparisons.
For what it’s worth, 8.1 is a huge improvement over 8, especially in terms of the “metro” interface just popping up uninvited. (I’m seriously contemplating ripping out the windows button from my keyboard though, although that one has been an annoyance in all Windows versions)
Something to consider: the most popular version version of Windows right now is Windows 7 (with the Aero interface).
Thanks to the weird Metro changes in Windows 8, the stripping of the Aero interface, Windows 8 no longer feels like Windows as much.
While in OSX we have a coincidental (or?) presence of more and more Aero-like elements to OSX Yosemite (transparency, OSX pre-existing soft shadows, etc.), and a more familiar desktop experience.
OSX Yosemite feels more familiar to Windows 7 users than Windows 8 does. Stuff may change very rapidly in the next few years in terms of desktop OS market share…
Windows 8 on a regular desktop is like having a touch interface that you can’t touch. This to me is a glaring misstep. What were they thinking?
I’m using OS X 10.9.3, 10.8.5, Windows 7, and Windows 8.1.
Funny enough, Windows 8 is quite usable, but for the schizophrenic situation when it comes to settings.
That and the non-existent discoverability of certain features if you’re not using a tablet.
If it weren’t for these two major downsides, I would call Windows 8.1 the best Windows I’ve used so far. It’s fast, visually pleasing and I actually like the tile interface for launching apps, but then again, I also like Launchpad on the Mac.
The reason 8.1 is starting to reverse course, and Windows 9 will reverse course even more, is that Microsoft has been getting negative feedback from people regarding the usability of Windows 8.
If you’re using “OS X 10.9.3, 10.8.5, Windows 7, and Windows 8.1” you’re already demonstrating you’re not exactly the typical Windows user, now are you?
While I may find my way around Windows 8, it doesn’t mean I like it. The decisions made are repulsive. Maybe I’m overly sensitive to design or something.
And this folks is a prime example of the source of Apple’s “it just works”
I find it literally hilarious how many issues were encountered in that post and even more hilarious how much bloatware is installed by default. Reading that makes me feel so much happy I own a MacBook. I feel sorry for his son though. Should have got a Mac and installed Windows through Bootcamp…
Funny. I buy mac hardware for work, and use bootcamp for windows. Machines are FAR higher of a quality than HP/Dell bullshit at the same price. Not sure why this guy wouldn’t have just used bootcamp, he would accomplish the same thing.
Tradition.
That poor man. So flustered, he couldn’t even spell “for fuck’s sake” correctly. 😉
My wife and I are due to visit my father-in-law fairly soon. He’s a longtime Windows XP user, and I know he’s not equipped to learn anything substantially different from that.
I’m hoping his recently-replaced computer is running Windows 7. I’ve already warned him that I’m not available for tech support, regardless of whether he’s using Windows 8 or a new Mac.
He’s right to be frustrated with bloat pre-loaded on the computer (Norton? Really?) but “I’m a mac user and don’t understand windows” is not a valid complaint. You can’t figure out to launch apps? Well learn it then. (It’s the windows key + start typing, just like spotlight on mac, just 1 key less)
As a guy with a foot in each camp, I find these kinds of post quite petty. Yeah, I might prefer OSX, but Windows 8.1 is a fine operating system that works great and does what it needs (mostly launch apps)
I think the visual aspects are a matter of personal preference. I like the way the OS looks, at least the modern parts of it.
I might not be the typical user, but I used to be and under the hood Windows 8 is a a huge step forward. The usability and discoverability of the tentpole features leaves much to be desired, though.
I really hope MS is going to improve this and fast.
I’ve seen first-hand that the transition from Windows XP or Windows 7 to OS X is easier to manage for regular users than the transition to Windows 8. That alone should tell Microsoft how badly they’ve messed up the OS for notebook and desktop users.
You don’t realize what a pain in the ass it is to fix a Windows machine until you no longer have to do it.
It’s still going on…
Some people thought I was just having a rant on Tuesday, but I really wasn’t. It worries me that normal people have to put up with this kind of nonsense. Any OS that requires countless updates out of the box must have something wrong with it.
Anyway, I got all of the updates installed and decided that Windows 8.1 may be better as Hamish says. The current situation is shown in the image above which means that the official way to install is not working despite countless attempts. So I tried the HP method and that asks for a product key which is apparently now hidden in the BIOS. I downloaded an app to find that key and it is not accepted, I just get a message asking if I want to pay £99.99 for an official version. Presumably the version of Windows 8 on my new laptop is official… Am I being punished for something I have done in a previous life?
No, you’re merely using a product that wasn’t designed for consumers to use without IT support, and whose fans defend with “RTFM.” We can do better than that now.
I hope your kid’s school administrator got a substantial kickback for specifying this crap.
I am in the UK and that is what he has to use for computing studies. They did not specify the actual machine, but did the fact it must be Windows 8.
Hard to believe I was only satisfied by the Mac when I moved 4 years ago and wrote this at the time-
“I thought I would write about my recent move from a PC, that was slowly dying, to a new Mac Mini and document the experience. Of course it is never easy to move from one computer to another, let alone a new platform, and this move has been a little bit tricky as would be expected. I have a decent screen and keyboard and mouse (the last two are already Apple products) and so decided to go for the Mac Mini to save some money. It is remarkable what deals can be struck on Apple products in major retailers if you are prepared to buy the extended warranty which you can cancel within 21 days. Let’s just say I paid approximately £400 for a brand new Mac Mini which seemed like a good deal to me.
I had already backed up my vital information from the PC to an external hard drive so all I needed to do was plug in my screen and the other bits to get started. However, the cable supplied with the Mac Mini was not the right one so a further trip to buy one was needed. Not a problem- how much can a simple cable be? For a moment I forgot that I was buying an ‘Apple’ cable and so £21 (!) later I was ready to go. It all started well and the slow process of moving my data over started.
Despite trying Macs in the past, things have changed which makes the move easier now. I use WordPress to manage 247 and so the Mac is fine for this task. Exchange support has (finally) been included by default and so emails are not an issue either and overall the move should be painless. The real surprise was moving my iPhone from the PC to the Mac which required hours of scouring forums to find a solution that worked. I fully understand the need for security, but Apple needs to look at this because the whole process is a kludge that most people would struggle to get to grips with. Smartphones hold lots of vital data for their users and so moving one from one computer to another should be a one click process that does not cause palpitations every step of the way. Eventually I got it working, thanks to you guys, and I was ready to start experiencing the Mac OS in earnest.
I have used Macs on many occasions and have never been overly enamoured by the OS or the way it works; I don’t like the dock, the keyboard shortcuts or the overall environment, but recognise that time will bring the familiarity needed to fully appreciate what so many others rave about. The fact is that I have moved to a Mac because of Microsoft and not because of Apple; I am sick and tired of continual reboots after the daily updates are installed, the daily Internet Explorer crashes, the slowdowns for no apparent reason and mostly having to change my PC every couple of years because it has become unusable. I know many people who have used the same Mac for 4 or 5 years and I want that. I don’t want to worry about reliability and I just want to get things done.
I didn’t buy the Mac Mini out of desire because if that were the case I would have purchased an iMac. I bought it to get on with things and I am convinced that I will stay with Mac OS this time. It is disappointing that the cheapest Mac OS hardware you can buy now is £650 because this stops many people from even considering the platform, but it is ultimately value for money because it is much more likely to last the distance thanks to the quality of materials and relatively slow progress of the OS. I don’t get excited about desktop computers or laptops because smartphones and mobile devices are my game, but I am now content and hopeful that all of the fiddly and messing about with desktops is over. On the whole I am ‘reasonably satisfied’ with the Mac Mini and that is good enough for me. It’s good enough because I expect to have forgotten what continual updates, freezing and general unreliability is like in a couple of months and that is what counts.”
“You can’t figure out to launch apps? Well learn it then. (It’s the
windows key + start typing, just like spotlight on mac, just 1 key less)”
I fear this is the same attitude that MS took when it released Windows 8. The problem is that solutions like this are not easy for average user, especially if above average users have problems. I consider myself a power user when it comes to Windows. I’m not an
expert, but I’m far from an average user and I make a living (partially
at least) as a .NET developer. I had trouble using Windows 8 at first.
There are a lot of things that are just not discoverable and others that were easy to do or find before are hidden behind a poorly designed touch interface. You should not have to use the keyboard to launch an app on a GUI OS. Settings, and other important functions, should not be hidden or half implemented and in multiple locations. There should not be duplicate apps for a touch UI vs a mouse driven UI on the same system. The list could go on…
The complaints Shaun has are all valid; including not knowing how to launch apps. This is a consumer OS (I’m including enterprise users here too) and as such should be easy to out of the box for the average user. My experience, as well as Shaun’s and countless others’, is that this is not the case. Windows 8 is a mess in terms of usability. I’ll reserve judgement on Windows 8.1 until I can actually use it, but I’m not in any hurry at this point.
“RTFM.”
No, it’s only petty to professionals and enthusiast nerds, who are a relatively tiny portion of the population. Your use-case is not universal.
You don’t peddle an operating system to consumers worldwide and then throw “RTFM” at them when it proves more complicated than they were expecting. That’s how we got the malware industry; millions of Windows computers were sold to people who didn’t understand how to protect themselves from online intrusion. Because they didn’t have an IT specialist who could anticipate security issues.
Mac user wants windows pc. Does not buy the mac equivalent which would be a surface which has updates installed and no bloatware. Mac user buys cheap windows laptop from shitty hp who cant make good laptops if their existence required it with no SSD and crappy amd cpu for £300. Expects it to perform the same as £800 mac laptop. Proceeds to declare all windows pcs as slow and full of bloatware. Never occuring to the mac user why apple doesnt release a mac with no SSD and amd CPU for $300 (hint it would suck).I continuing to believe that these people are idiots who can’t make valid comparisons.
For what it’s worth, 8.1 is a huge improvement over 8, especially in terms of the “metro” interface just popping up uninvited. (I’m seriously contemplating ripping out the windows button from my keyboard though, although that one has been an annoyance in all Windows versions)